Abbey Donnell is the Founder and CEO of Work & Mother, a network of 'amenitized' full service, fully equipped Mother's Suites, and an associated App to support working moms. Before devoting her work full time to Work & Mother, Abbey spent her career in marketing and brand strategy. Abbey has a BS and BA in Advertising and Spanish Language from the University of Colorado at Boulder, an MBA from Rice University, and is a Certified Lactation Counselor. She is also a working mother herself, with firsthand experience of the challenges that today's working families face.

PODCAST TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00.000] - Abbey Donnell

I want to create an environment wherever it may be that allows them to just show up and focus on a task at hand and enjoy this very busy chaotic juggling act, but in a way that they're set up for success.

[00:00:20.380] - Doug Foulkes

Welcome to Episode 40 of The Future of Work, the podcast that looks at every aspect of work in the future. We released two podcasts a month, featuring industry experts and thought leaders discussing how work is changing and evolving. The Future of Work is now.

[00:00:37.850] - Doug Foulkes

This show is brought to you by WNDYR for their blog, Chaos & Rocketfuel. WNDYR are productivity and human behaviour specialists whose mission is to break legacy behaviours before they destroy your team's professional productivity and personal health. And you can check them out at wndyr.com. That's W-Y-N-D-Y-R.com.

[00:01:01.240] - Doug Foulkes

Our podcasts are available on all main platforms. If you find this content of value, please follow and share. I'm Doug Foulkes . And this week with WNDYR CEO, Claire Haidar, we meet Abbey Donnell, the founder and CEO of Work & Mother, a network of amenitized, full service, fully equipped mother suites that support working mums.

[00:01:24.760] - Doug Foulkes

Before devoting her work full time to Work & Mother, Abbey spent her career in marketing and brand strategy. Abbey has a BS and BA in advertising and Spanish Language from the University of Colorado at Boulder. An MBA from Rice University, and is a certified Lactation Counsellor.

[00:01:43.860] - Doug Foulkes

She is also a working mother herself, with first hand experience of the challenges that today's working families face. I want to state at the outset that this is not a podcast just for our female listeners. As we will find out, lack of amenities, in general, in the workspace is something that can affect everyone.

[00:02:03.740] - Doug Foulkes

Today, we will discover what problem Work & Mother is solving, what legacy Abbey would like to leave for the future workplace and the legal obligations employers face when supplying amenities for their workforce.

[00:02:17.320] - Doug Foulkes

But before that, let's look briefly at some other amenities that should be taken into account when looking at retention and enablement of the workforce.

[00:02:26.500] - Abbey Donnell

The number one that I think everyone has had their eye on, especially with this past year, year and a half with the pandemic is child care. That is, I think, such a tricky one to address. And I wish I had a good idea, a good way to amenitize it or provide a solution.

[00:02:46.040] - Abbey Donnell

But I think that is the number one focal point to be able to help today's workforce. And that and transportation for families, I don't know how. Once again, I don't know how you amenitize some of these or how you tackle them. And that's why we need some other very sharp minds to be thinking on it and seeing innovative solutions.

[00:03:07.550] - Abbey Donnell

But for families in particular, trying to get to an office or then pick up kids from day care or take to soccer practise or get over here, one kid has recital. I think how you manage these chaotic family schedules from a transportation standpoint and safety with, do you have the right car seats in each car? This car is coming, or if you're going to Uber here? That in childcare, I think those are the two biggest issues facing today's working families.

[00:03:40.740] - Claire

I'm giggling while you're giving this answer because I read... I don't know if you know, but Kinfolk magazine have just recently introduced a parenting magazine called Kindling. I've got Issue 1.

[00:03:54.290] - Claire

And they have this hilarious article in this magazine about, apparently, sometime in... I can't [inaudible 00:04:01], but it is the '60s, 1960s. Apparently they created baby cages.

[00:04:10.300] - Claire

And what they essentially, what these baby cages were was literally for mothers who just needed some respite from the kids that were in these tiny New York and other big cities here in the US apartments.

[00:04:24.560] - Claire

And so they created these cages that they would put these babies into and they would suspend them at the windows of these major-

[00:04:32.260] - Abbey Donnell

I saw that picture.

[00:04:33.360] - Claire

Did you see that picture?

[00:04:37.340] - Abbey Donnell

Yes, I did. It's hard to believe that is [crosstalk 00:04:40].

[00:04:40.480] - Claire

It's really hard to believe it. And that's the whole point of this article was that they were like, if you think about it, the same stress that drove others to invent this baby cage, and the lunacy of hanging your baby, literally suspending them out of this high rise building is the same lunacy that has in many ways been caused by COVID.

[00:05:03.180] - Claire

Parents are equally desperate, but in different ways. That was the question that the article was posing. Is that what are the behaviours that we're going to look back on, that our kids are going to look back on and go, what? You were having us out of a window?

[00:05:18.800] - Claire

What I'm thinking about what you're saying is it's like, are you going to see car manufacture is like creating high speed pods that pick a kid up at school and zoom them off to some recital or something.

[00:05:34.480] - Claire

And I think there's some really, really interesting things that will start emerging. I'd really like to start with the actual problem that you're solving at Work & Mother.

[00:05:45.380] - Claire

This is a topic as lactating mom, myself who has gone through this journey before. I know about the very deep frustrations. This topic that we're talking about today is emotional and it's a very raw topic.

[00:06:01.020] - Claire

And I'd love for you to start there at that point and talk to us about why you're doing what you're doing because of the huge pain that exist in this area.

[00:06:10.100] - Abbey Donnell

Yes, absolutely. So I actually started Work & Mother before I became a mother myself, which surprises a lot of people. But at the time, I was working in marketing and I was also going to school to get my MBA.

[00:06:25.260] - Abbey Donnell

And it was at that time in life that all of my friends started having kids, and I watched as they struggled to go back to work, as they try to continue breastfeeding, but were met with just unfavourable conditions at work, to put it nicely, I guess.

[00:06:40.740] - Abbey Donnell

It seemed like whenever we got together, the topic of conversation always resorted back to breastfeeding and pumping and trying to go to work and juggle both. And having to roam the office, looking for a place each day and forgetting parts, and having to run to the store in the middle of the day.

[00:06:58.140] - Abbey Donnell

And it was causing burnout, guilt, emotional struggles. And at the time, since I didn't have kids, I had nothing to add to the conversation. So I just sat back and listened and thought how awful that sounded.

[00:07:10.480] - Abbey Donnell

And I knew I wanted to have kids. And I looked around my workplace. And even though my company was super supportive and family-friendly from a culture standpoint, there was no physical place.

[00:07:20.880] - Abbey Donnell

It was a wide-open floor plan, all-glass walls, a single unisex bathroom. And I just thought to myself like, no, this isn't going to work. And so I started asking around.

[00:07:32.590] - Abbey Donnell

I talked to a lot of moms. I talked to a lot of companies. And that's when I learned that there's actually a legal component to this in that the majority of employers are legally obligated to provide a space other than a bathroom for a mom to pump.

[00:07:45.700] - Abbey Donnell

And even these big companies that should have had the resources in the space to do so we're failing. The turnover rate was huge. It was costing companies, lawsuits were spiking.

[00:07:56.980] - Abbey Donnell

And so I just thought, there has to be a better way to address this in a way that benefits both employers and moms and families. And so that's how I got started. And I was actually pregnant with my first when I launched our first location. So I got to test it all in real-time.

[00:08:14.560] - Claire

Credible. I think something that's really important to your idea is you've chosen to focus on this one particular immunity, which mostly impacts mothers in their breastfeeding phase. But this is a much larger issue that actually extends to men as well.

[00:08:34.300] - Claire

And I've had conversations with a lot of single who, for example, in airports, have major issues like, if you have a dad who has a daughter, what bathroom does he take her to? He can't go into the female bathroom where the diaper changing table is because he's not allowed there.

[00:08:53.800] - Claire

But he also is absolutely not going to take his baby girl into the man's bathroom because there isn't a changing table there. Our conversation today is going to be focused around what you're doing. But there is actually a much larger issue around parenting facilities and parenting amenities that is actually completely gender-neutral. It's got nothing to do with the gender. It's the fact that parents are not being catered for in ways that they need to be catered for in a combination of public and working spaces.

[00:09:26.180] - Doug Foulkes

You mentioned there that you weren't a mother when you thought of this, and it was really from witnessing with situations in the workplace. I'm just going to ask you around acting as an entrepreneur. I mean, you obviously saw a situation here. What were you doing at the time? Were you heavily into a corporate environment or made you have that jump to have an entrepreneurial attack at this problem?

[00:09:51.600] - Abbey Donnell

Yeah. I've always been rather entrepreneurial. I was that kid growing up that always had either a lemonade stand or went door to door selling pictures or whatever. I always had that in me.

[00:10:08.790] - Abbey Donnell

My dad has his own business, I've watched that. In the company, the marketing company I worked for as well encouraged that kind of thinking and freedom. So it's always been a part of the way I've thought about things and approached problems.

[00:10:23.230] - Abbey Donnell

But unselfishly, too, I saw the need. I saw other struggles. And I knew that was the path that I would soon be on. And I didn't want to struggle like that.

[00:10:33.800] - Abbey Donnell

And so I set out to create the solution that I hope to have for myself, but wish some of my friends had had. And so I think a big piece of being entrepreneurial is just talking to a lot of people and really what their pain points are. And that's what organically grows from there.

[00:10:53.280] - Abbey Donnell

To also address your question, I was working in marketing. My environment in particular wasn't a huge corporate, but I had a variety of different clients, many of which were.

[00:11:04.060] - Abbey Donnell

And so I was actually able to see a lot of different company cultures, a lot of different corporate settings and offices. And that also helped inform the fact that it didn't really matter which setting these working moms were in. There wasn't a good solution in any of them. So that really helped as well.

[00:11:25.310] - Claire

Okay. So Abbey, let's dive into the actual details. Talk to us about what a Work & Mother amenity facility in an office looks and feels like.

[00:11:38.360] - Abbey Donnell

Yes. So our suits, you can think of them a bit like a building gym. They're not in a particular office space. Rather, they're in the office building itself as a shared space amenity.

[00:11:51.840] - Abbey Donnell

So, for example, we are most often either on the ground floor or the amenity floor in a place that's pretty easy to access for anyone in the building. Our sites are set up with safety, sanitation, and comfort in mind. So we like to say they spotlight yet professional. And there's a few reasons.

[00:12:13.270] - Abbey Donnell

Obviously, the safety one is vital. Sanitation, particularly coming off of pandemic is huge. When you think a lot of the existing solutions that moms are having to deal with, it's a bathroom, which should never be the case, but it is.

[00:12:28.520] - Abbey Donnell

Wellness rooms, which if someone is unwell and has using it before you, that's the last place you want to go in and prepare food for a newborn, especially if you have an immunocompromised newborn. Some are having to pump in their car.

[00:12:45.060] - Abbey Donnell

Just the latest one I heard, which was so sad. But a mom was working in an environment that was dog-friendly company, and they had a dog room, I guess, that also doubled as a mother's room.

[00:12:58.000] - Abbey Donnell

And there's all these environments that are both sad just in general, but not the sanitary environment you want to be preparing food for your baby in. So that's a huge component.

[00:13:08.940] - Abbey Donnell

And then the other piece is that it has to be comfortable because when your body is tense when you're feeling vulnerable when you're scared a coworker is going to walk in on you, you actually hinder the letdown process.

[00:13:21.220] - Abbey Donnell

And so a lot of moms see their supply dropping once they go back to work. And a big piece of that is that they're pumping in these subpar environments and their body is physically stressed and tense and that can interfere with their milk let down.

[00:13:36.600] - Abbey Donnell

So our spaces have private rooms with locking doors. Every room has every single thing they need to pump. The hospital great pump, the sanitising wipes, and supplies, storage bags, lanolin, breast pads, you name it. It's their right there waiting for them. They just bring in their attachment kit.

[00:13:56.540] - Abbey Donnell

And a lot of our private rooms have workstations, because let's face it, mums are multitaskers and they want to get out of the office in a timely manner, get back to kids. And most of them are usually multitasking and working while they pump. So if that's your mom's choice, we've got it set up for them to be able to do that.

[00:14:18.800] - Doug Foulkes

Abbey, whether you like it or not, you've created something that is going to be vital for the future of work, which is really what the podcast is about. Just tell me in a bit more detail what you'd like to create for future generations in the workplace?

[00:14:33.060] - Abbey Donnell

I really want to create a workplace for future generations that enables the individual to really thrive ay both of their roles or whatever they're setting out to succeed at. Because right now, moms are set up to fail at this juggle.

[00:14:49.780] - Abbey Donnell

And I think one thing we saw with the pandemic is that the future is very much flexed. And that is something we are all about. And it actually, in a way, reinforces everything we're doing, because now the future of work is a little bit more flexible. They can travel. Their time isn't structured.

[00:15:09.440] - Abbey Donnell

But that also means they need places to pump that, maybe outside of their individual office footprint, for example. They need ways to ship breast milk or to... we have a partner that helps them do a freeze-drying process. It creates a shelf-stable powder for them.

[00:15:26.200] - Abbey Donnell

So moms are freed up to take a meeting on the other side of town. And if they have to pump, they pop into one of our locations. Or if they're traveling, rather than trying to fill a cooler full of milk and carry it on, they can take advantage right in our suites of one of our partner services, which is this breast milk freeze-drying process.

[00:15:47.400] - Abbey Donnell

At any point, we have all the equipment they need, so they're not dragging a really, really heavy background and having to carry the mental load of, did I pack all the parts? Did I all the pieces? Do I freezer bags? All of that.

[00:16:01.810] - Abbey Donnell

For the future generations, I want to create an environment wherever it may be that allows them to just show up and focus on the task at hand and enjoy this very busy, chaotic juggling act, but in a way that they're set up for success.

[00:16:16.960] - Doug Foulkes

I'm just going to take a 10-second break to ask you if you're finding this podcast of value. If you are, please follow us on your platform of choice. Remember, we have new content published twice a month.

[00:16:28.440] - Claire

I just recall how frustrating pumping was. You know what I mean? It's not easy to pump. That's all I could say. You know what I mean?

[00:16:39.520] - Claire

And I think most women will admit that at some point in their pumping breastfeeding journey, there were a lot of tears, a lot of frustration, a lot of pain until everything settled in.

[00:16:50.400] - Claire

But just looking at the images and the environment that you've created it, it's so, so true what you say about that strengths and how it impacts the mothers, actual, ability to function.

[00:17:04.900] - Claire

Just looking at how you guys have said it, you're definitely are addressing that very real neurological and physiological need that is often very overlooked, because what you often find is that employers are coming at it purely from, it's just a space, and then it stops there. But the thoughtfulness that goes into, but what kind of space it is? Is where that growth needs to happen.

[00:17:29.840] - Abbey Donnell

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. I mean, we always say that if it was just about the space, anyone could provide it. But it's not. It's about the space. It's about the equipment, the cleaning, the sanitization, the support resources.

[00:17:43.960] - Abbey Donnell

We actually offer quite a few support resources and telehealth options from lactation consultants to sleep coaching and career coaching, mental health. All of it because it's such a huge period of change and learning regardless if its your first, second or third kid, each one is different, your body reacts differently, and everyone is going back to work in different environments or different timelines.

[00:18:14.300] - Abbey Donnell

And there is just so much involved that we kind of like, moms have just been thrown back into a sink or swim situation, but with so little support. And what we are trying to do is address the problem holistically and provide the physical support, but also all the other support that's really necessary.

[00:18:34.720] - Claire

And again, coming back to the point that I made at the start, we need to start broadening this conversation and bringing the broader LBGQT community into this as well, because it impacts them.

[00:18:49.120] - Claire

And I have actually got quite a few friends in our friendship circle who are gay couples. And one of them, for example, he has actually struggled with this exact issue at work, not because he's been doing the pumping, but they surrogate. They have wanted to provide the very best facilities to their surrogate because the surrogate is providing such an essential service to their children because the surrogate is a working woman and needs to be able to have all of these things that we've just been discussing. And so it definitely extends.

[00:19:25.390] - Claire

This isn't just a female issue.

[00:19:27.620] - Abbey Donnell

Well, I mean, to your point, their surrogate needs a space and the equipment and the resources to do her part. But then there's also a huge mental and emotional component for the gay couple who's trying to think through it and manage it logistically and navigate this new world. But they still care very much about their career.

[00:19:49.670] - Abbey Donnell

And so in order to set them up for success, both with family and career, you've got to have support options in place. So I love that example. I think it's amazing that, hopefully, what we're doing can really help everyone.

[00:20:04.660] - Claire

Okay. So Abbey, what I'd like us to do now is I'd like to take the conversation a little bit more broadly. And can you shift away for a little while from purely breastfeeding and lactating needs and look at it more broadly through the broader immunity lens?

[00:20:21.500] - Claire

And can you describe to us what do you feel are some of the other immunities that employers maybe don't understand that they have legal obligations around or that there aren't necessarily currently legal obligations around, but that are severely the real gaps in the workplaces that we've created to date?

[00:20:41.940] - Abbey Donnell

Yes. So I can't really speak to legal obligations outside of what we're doing. What I can say just as far as legal obligations and the future of workplace from an amenity standpoint, is that every day the law is progressing both from a federal standpoint and a local state, municipality standpoint to better serve families, thankfully.

[00:21:06.370] - Abbey Donnell

Now they're slowly progressing and it's long overdue. But there's new legislation being introduced all the time, and that is largely driven by the fact that we have more women in office than ever before.

[00:21:18.260] - Abbey Donnell

And this problem, the way working moms have been struggling in an isolated manner, it's no longer in isolation. Moms are talking about it. Social media has driven pictures of the situation, and there's a lot more awareness and a lot less stigma around speaking up on it.

[00:21:38.620] - Abbey Donnell

And so from an employer standpoint, especially from state to state, as things change, the amenity set up allows them to ensure that they are always in compliance because we monitor all of the changing legislation and we make sure we're ahead of all of it.

[00:21:56.600] - Abbey Donnell

In fact, we like to say that we are setting the bar far higher than what the law addresses. But for a company with offices in different states or different areas, by having the amenity set up, it basically allows them to easily satisfy that compliance and do it in a way that goes far above and beyond what they could provide on their own.

[00:22:18.960] - Doug Foulkes

Abbey, I'm just going to continue maybe with Claire's theme of the bigger picture. Where do you actually dream that Work & Mother can go?

[00:22:27.480] - Abbey Donnell

My dream is that Work & Mother is as common in the workplace as an office building, quite frankly. I want moms to you have the freedom to be able to pop in to our suites, whether or not they're even at work or on a work day.

[00:22:43.660] - Abbey Donnell

I mean, I want moms to be able to go to the mall with their families and not have to worry about pumping or finding a place to breastfeed. I want them to be able to live freely and know that there is always a support system or location either nearby physically in one of our suites or at their fingertips through our app.

[00:23:05.760] - Abbey Donnell

We are a very active culture moving around a lot, and I want moms to be able to be part of it all but without sacrificing their breastfeeding goals.

[00:23:18.170] - Claire

So Abbey, can I ask a clarification question there? Are you basically wanting to open this as, and excuse me, if this is the wrong terminology, but almost as a retail outlet. So as easily as I can walk into a Lululemon or a Gatso or or a grocery shop, for that matter, I'd be able to pop into a Work & Mother to do my breastfeeding on the go?

[00:23:41.780] - Abbey Donnell

Eventually down the line, yes. I would love to see that happen. I'd love to see us everywhere, as convenient as can be.

[00:23:48.900] - Claire

Okay, so that's actually a perfect segue into the next question that I have for you. So what I'd really like to understand is, what is the resistance that you're currently getting from? I'll call them customers, but I think I'm more interested in the actual property development side. So the people were and the facilities where this amenity would be provided. What are the typical resistance points that you see?

[00:24:12.860] - Abbey Donnell

I think the biggest one for us, the biggest hurdle at the moment is simply education. I mean, what we're doing is so new. And for landlords, we've actually had a lot of even inbound requests from landlords and property owners who see the value in this, and they like the concept, but it's a new thing that they're incorporating. So with that, it takes a lot of education and time and understanding.

[00:24:34.590] - Abbey Donnell

The lack of awareness also spurs the question a lot of like, well, how many people actually need this? And then it's like, well, actually, it's a lot more than you realise, because they're suffering in silence or they're walking to their cars to pump or they are quitting or stopping pumping before they want to.

[00:24:51.730] - Abbey Donnell

But not only that, it affects every single company, either from a compliance standpoint or like you're saying, your example earlier, the LGBTQ community, it affects everyone. And so there's education around the domino effect, both to families, but also to employers, bottom line. And all of that is just an awareness piece.

[00:25:13.250] - Abbey Donnell

And even for some of our customers, they will walk into our spaces before they become customers and go, oh, my gosh, this is not what I expected at all. This is amazing.

[00:25:24.900] - Abbey Donnell

And it's just because everything people are used to or just mom's dealing with what exists. And so that's been really the biggest hurdle is, like, the assumption someone makes when they hear we're creating a lactation suite of what that is. And then also the existing fact that it's been ignored for so long.

[00:25:47.110] - Claire

I laughed when you say, well, how many people will like? Fifty percent of the human population would like. That's the number right there.

[00:25:57.420] - Abbey Donnell

I mean, there's a little bit of a disconnect. I did actually have one guy. He was talking about his company. And he was like, well, I don't know what the moms have been doing in the past, but they've obviously been getting by.

[00:26:14.360] - Abbey Donnell

And I wanted to be like, well, what is your turnover rate look like? And how many women do you actually have? Are you actually retaining here because I have a feeling your company culture is not as great as you think it is, if that your attitude.

[00:26:27.800] - Claire

And just to get really specifically with you. Am I hearing you correctly that you're saying, it's not just the education of the immunity providers? So the property developer or the employer, but it's actually of the customer themselves, because, as you say, women have just settled for less than. And gay couples have just settled for less than.

[00:26:48.780] - Abbey Donnell

Yes. And one thing I like to encourage people to do, there's nuances to the way we've just dealt with things and the way we speak about things. But I always encourage people when they are in an office or at a convention or just in a new space, not to ask if there is a lactation room, ask where it is. Put the shame and honest on the host to figure that out, because it's for too long it's been on the mom to figure it out. And like, it just shouldn't be that way.

[00:27:20.220] - Abbey Donnell

It makes them feel embarrassed or are nervous, or some, in particular, are worried. If they've just been out on maternity leave, they don't want to come back asking for anything else. And it's like, you, A, have the right to, but B, you are a valuable piece of the workforce. Don't sell yourself short and don't be the one shouldering this burden in isolation.

[00:27:42.100] - Abbey Donnell

And I encourage all co-workers to speak up on that note. It shouldn't just be on the moms to ask for it. It should be on the workforce to make sure that anyone in their office is taken care of and supportive. But little nuances like that where instead of asking if there is one, ask where it is.

[00:28:02.200] - Claire

It's interesting that you should say that because I've started getting stroppy like that. So I've moved beyond the breastfeeding stage. But I'm getting stroppy about that, about diaper changing stations, where I'm just infuriated about the lack of it, and I'm having to change my child on a bathroom floor. And it's just, I'm done with this. And I walk out of the bathroom like stroppy, stroppy. And I'm like, where is the diaper changing table?

[00:28:30.500] - Abbey Donnell

And I have actually been talking with the... There's another company you should look into whose tackling that one. And they've got a much more modern and cleaner diaper changing table than we've settled for, either complete lack of one or the dirty broken one that we've settled for so long.

[00:28:48.500] - Claire

What's that company's name?

[00:28:50.280] - Abbey Donnell

Pluie.

[00:28:51.600] - Claire

Pluie?

[00:28:52.510] - Abbey Donnell

Yes. I love to see so many new innovations and companies started by moms because they've been tired. It's like no more.

[00:29:02.940] - Doug Foulkes

 Abbey, next point. I mean, we've spoken all-around work and mother, but maybe a lot of the listeners we've missed out the most important question is, where can they find them?

[00:29:14.030] - Doug Foulkes

I know that you started in Houston. What are your more immediate plans, or how many amenities do you have at the moment? And what are your immediate plans on expansion?

[00:29:22.320] - Abbey Donnell

Yes. So we're still a young company. We have locations in Houston, opening soon in Austin. And some in the pipeline in Dallas and in four other markets. I can't give too much away just yet because we haven't made those announcements publicly, but we plan to be growing outside of Texas very quickly very soon.

[00:29:45.600] - Doug Foulkes

That's fantastic.

[00:29:45.600] - Abbey Donnell

So I will keep you posted on that. But like I said, our goal and our growth plans are to be as convenient as possible for today's workforce. So we want to be everywhere and we plan to be everywhere very quickly.

[00:30:00.580] - Doug Foulkes

Abbey, you've got time for my last question, I think. And you've mentioned a few things that are potentially massive headaches. For yourself, have you got anything specifically that you would like to work on as your next amenity?

[00:30:14.180] - Abbey Donnell

I don't know that I'd say amenity. I definitely have a passion, I think. There is a lot of innovation in this area. But I still think we have so far to go with the breast pump and the breastfeeding experience to make it much more enjoyable and efficient for moms.

[00:30:33.860] - Abbey Donnell

People assume, because it's a natural thing, it's an easy thing, and that is so far from the truth. And breastfeeding is one thing, and it's very challenging, but pumping itself is a whole different thing, and it is less beautiful and it is much more mechanical.

[00:30:50.920] - Abbey Donnell

And I just think there is so much progress still to be made and what that looks like and how it's done. And so that's a little bit more where my interest lies, but still very much intertwined with what I'm doing now.

[00:31:06.080] - Doug Foulkes

Thank you, Abbey. Very nice to meet you.

[00:31:08.980] - Claire

Yeah, thank you for coming on. And I really do hope that this is just another conversation that really does open more doors for you.

[00:31:18.140] - Abbey Donnell

Well, thank you. I really appreciate you having me.

[00:31:20.390] - Doug Foulkes

And that's where we'll leave it. Abbey Donnell, a mother, an entrepreneur carving a future for herself and looking out for the enablement of the future workforce.

[00:31:30.580] - Doug Foulkes

We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. If you have, we would appreciate that you follow us on your preferred platform and share with friends and colleagues.

[00:31:38.940] - Doug Foulkes

Just a reminder, for more information about WNDYR and the integration services that they supply, you can visit their website. That's wndyr.com. And so for me, Doug Foulkes and Chaos & Rocketfuel, stay safe and we'll see you soon.